What would you do in Proctor's position? In Elizabeth's? What about Danforth's? What does Miller seem to be saying about pride and dignity?
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Proctor eventually just broke when the balance of order completely fell to the opposing side of Abby. I would probably have done the same... actually earlier. If I were to defend a case on someone with much argument, and suddenly the person you are defending turns on you, there would just be too much to bear. The choices were DIE or... LIE... I would have probably lied due to I DUN WANNA DYE but then again, half of the people would be drawn to believe that I is a guy doing killing magick.... Elizabeth was accused and knowing that rebelling will make matters worse, she just let herself be taken. I would have been like "Abby is a #(*%# and she needs to #(*%#ng suck &*#(& and die and burn for accusing me and ruining my #%(** **** Life" in my head... and then go be taken. The next time I saw mia accuser, I would then whip out my hidden fork and stab her in the eye and gouge them out with a spoon... Then sock her in the face... I would obviously die for that but I would just feel better when she is a pool of red pulp. Elizabeth did not force her husband to lie, she clearly gave it to him that it was his choice and she has no power to it. I am not that...calm.. I would plead to keep a loved one alive... (assuming I is not dead yet for smashing la accusers face in). In Danforth's position, I would.. ... I have no Idea.... I'll finish this later.
If I was in Proctor's position I would definitly not do what he did haha. I would lie about it and then later (if they ever found out that those girls were crazy) I would tell the truth. If I had kids and a wife to look after like how John did, I wouldn't give people a reason to kill me. If I was Elizabeth I would feel really upset about the whole situation. I wouldn't want my husband to die just because he wants to tell the truth and keep his "dignity". Life is precious to waste away like that. Why would you want to end it just because you want to tell the truth. I think that Miller is saying that back then, pride and dignity was very important to people. Even today, if people were put in that kind of situation, they would choose the same route as the victums of the Salem witch trails.
so i'm guessing the first one is adam's..u spelled "dye" wrong, its d-I-e and i thought i was gonna be like one of the last ones..but apparantly ppl either forgot or didn't know there was this journal thing...or are just lazy procrastinators anyway...
first of all, i'm not any of htese people and i don't know exactly what i would do, this is only what i think would be the better thing to do, i'll probably not be able to the same decision tho if i was actually in the situation.. so proctor, i'd like to live..and i still don't see a point in the whole name thing, i mean it's a label kinda, and it doesn't really say who you are inside, might be cuz i'm used to ppl not be able to say my name correctly. but i'd also like to stand up against wrong and not give in, so idk what i'd do..elizabeth..i would support whatev proctor did and continue living strong no matter what his decision was..but that if probly won't happen bc marriage is dumb and the law is much better..danforth, i now think i relate to him the most. i would try to be just but that situation really isn't easy.. but of course the oppressed always gets more sympathy and win, tho i hate it when people do that (when i'm accused as the oppressor, some kid is the oppressed) i would still fall for it if i was the judge..then later (being danforth) after the truth is revealed, i'd turn myself in to authority (better ones) and be guilty but have cool friends and family who tell me its ok bc i didn't PURPOSELY kill them miller seems to say pride and dignity is what a person should live for and die for if he/she can't have it..sure, it's easy to say everyone would like that, but in the status quo, ppl are cowards, like myself, and are only saying things bc they're not actually experiencing the situations....
another thing..i just remembered that i hate if ?'s ... so unrealistic..and untruthful (the answers) but i like how you let me complain about every side of the ?'s tho..thanks!
Proctor eventually just broke when the balance of order completely fell to the opposing side of Abby. I would probably have done the same... actually earlier. If I were to defend a case on someone with much argument, and suddenly the person you are defending turns on you, there would just be too much to bear. The choices were DIE or... LIE... I would have probably lied due to I DUN WANNA DYE but then again, half of the people would be drawn to believe that I is a guy doing killing magick.... Elizabeth was accused and knowing that rebelling will make matters worse, she just let herself be taken. I would have been like "Abby is a #(*%# and she needs to #(*%#ng suck &*#(& and die and burn for accusing me and ruining my #%(** **** Life" in my head... and then go be taken. The next time I saw mia accuser, I would then whip out my hidden fork and stab her in the eye and gouge them out with a spoon... Then sock her in the face... I would obviously die for that but I would just feel better when she is a pool of red pulp. Elizabeth did not force her husband to lie, she clearly gave it to him that it was his choice and she has no power to it. I am not that...calm.. I would plead to keep a loved one alive... (assuming I is not dead yet for smashing la accusers face in). In Danforth's position, I would at first, still be the same old strict and devoted remover of witchcraft at the witch trials... Until things got out of hand, when people start dyeeing in large quantities, I would rethink of wtcrap I need to reconsider.. I would not let those last people die because of needing to keep my own reputation and fairness of "must hang them". I would have let him sign the confession paper, but not nail it to the door and still keep him aLiVE and to possibly not spoil his name and pride.
--Y'all know how angry I am about the witch trials, so be patient with me as I rant violently and continuously.
--If I were in Proctor's situation, I would definitely be a major itch-bay to everyone responsible for the witch trials, and I would want to cause them as much pain as possible. I know that makes me sound like a terrible person, but I would no way In HE*& give those judges the satisfaction of seeing me beg for my life, and lie to everyone in the process. Unlike a certain spineless, weak-minded she-witch(uh-hem...Mary), I would NOT give in to the lies just to ease the conciences of the judges, because I personally hope they are tormented forever for what they did. Abigail and her home-girls, especially!!!! --In Elizabeth's case, I would move away from Salem, and never think about it again. It would be incredibly hard after witnessing such horrors and losing a husband, but I would live for my husband's child and make sure it grew up in a better place. --In Danforth's place, I don't see how I could possibly live with myself. I would probably commit suicide. I mean, look at how old he was(he was probably a bit senile [or a lot], what else could explain his unrational stubborness?), so it's not like he had much longer to go, anyway. Sure it's the coward's way out, but if I could be tried and sentenced to death, I'd take it, because that's the only way I can see someone making up for all the horrors they caused. (A life for a life, and all that.) --In the CRUCIBLE, Miller really makes the reader think about how much a person would give up in order to keep his pride and dignity. To me, if a person loses all his pride and dignity, then he has nothing. Proctor knew this, and that's why he preferred to die. In my mind, after Danforth realized that Abigail was lying, he could have made things right by publicly appologizing and then sentencing Abby to die, like all the other innocents, but only after she was completely stripped of friends, pride, and dignity(which she totally deserved). HOWEVER, by continuing the trials, Danforth only proved to me that he holds himself too high on his pedestal, and doesn't give a rat's you-know-what about making things right, because even though he may lose his pride, people would still respect him for making a mistake...or twenty mistakes, depending on how many innocents he actually sentenced/caused to die. Now let me rephrase what I said before; as long as you have your dignity, you'll be okay, for pride is only vanity, but dignity is your own honor. --PS. I HATE ABIGAIL WILLIAMS AND ALL THOSE GIRLS. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE THEM!!!!!
If in Proctor's position, I feel that i would lie and say that i was a witch. I believe he did a more noble thing by sticking to the truth, but i dont think i could do that. i especially would want to lie if my wife was pregnant like elizabeth. Sure he wants to keep his pride, but he has a duty to raise that unborn child. God forgives and i think He would understand one lying in that sort of position.
If i was elizabeth, i believe that i would tell Proctor that it was his decision, but i would give him my input. i would tell him that God would forgive him for his decision either way. i would also tell him that i would want him around to help raise our unborn child, but i would not want him to be unhappy the rest of his life for thinking that he made the wrong decision. Ultimately, it would be his decision.
If in Danforth's position, i believe that i would see that i was wrong in believing the girls and let the accused go. I would feel terrible about killing the other innocent people so i would not continue to kill the innocent in order to save my name.
Miller is showing that some people will die to keep their pride and dignity. not all people are like that, but if one does not have pride or dignity, then what do they have to live for?
I'm going to have to completely agree with Kaylyn on all of this. If I were in John Proctor's position, I would lie and admit to being a witch even if it costed me my name. Who cares that you are being called a witch as long as you live? I mean seriously, it's not like everyone would walk around town avoiding him because he is a "witch", because supposedly.. the whole fricken town is full of them. So I'm pretty sure that everyone wouldn't have looked at him any differently. I'm also pretty sure that everyone in the town (including the dumb judge who couldn't just let him live..) knew that everyone who confessed was just making it up so they could live. John is also very dumb to basically kill himself when he has a wife and kids that he supposedly loved. WHATEVER!
Being in Elizabeth's position, I would tell John what to do. John would most likely do whatever Elizabeth says because in his eyes, she is "perfect". If I were Elizabeth, I would never say that I have made mistakes too and that I won't judge him for whatever choice he makes. I mean I would, but not until after the judge decides to stop hanging innocent people. Yes, I know it's not his fault, but I don't care. If I were Elizabeth, I wouldn't let John have the choice to keep his name when it means killing himself and leaving me with two kids plus a third on it's way..
Danforth's position.. hmm.. I'm pretty sure my opinion on him has been made clear but here it is again.. Danforth is stupid. If I were in his position, I would have stopped it all once I found out the truth. When I found out that stupid Abby tricked all the stupid people in the stupid town, I would have made sure that no more stupid people would have been killed for no stupid reason. (Okay, I got the word stupid out of my system.) I would have just let everyone free (since they are innocent anyway) without making them confess to a lie. I know that we discussed this and that the judge had to finish it off but it sounds pretty... STUPID (okay, it slipped). Think about it.. "I'm going to finish killing off these innocent people that have had nothing to do with the devil, just because I've killed plenty of other innocent people by accident. These people must die for my past mistakes." Yepp... sounds great doesn't it?
Miller must be saying that pride is very important, because for all we know.. John surely thought so.
Stupid Witch Trials.
Alight, that is the last time I'll say stupid, until our next blog entry. :D:D
The last chapter was known to end in tragedy. Character's such as Proctor and Elizabeth had situations that were mortifying. At the end Proctor had a very difficult situation to make. If I was in his position that would be so hard. Like him I would do anything for my spouse and childeren. These individuals are his life. Deep down his strength in trying to do the right thing is extremely important to him. If I was in the situation he was in I would probably do somewhat of the same thing. I would want to prove to people and myself that what the court was doing was a lie! Another difficult situation/person put in a difficult situation in the plot was Elizabeth Proctor. This women has gone through so much in this tale "The Crucible." Such things such as being cheated on by her husband and being accused as a witch. Elizabeth is a very strong individual inside and out. This woman held her head high through it all. In the end she was pregnant. Being in a situation with a baby on the way is difficult enough, but then suddenly John is sentenced to die. In this situation I would probably be selfish and not let my spouse make that sacrifice. On the other hand though I would probably let him do what would be best for himself. This would be a hard sacrifice but I would know he did the right thing for everyone. About Danforth I wouldn't make the decisions he would have made. I would have listened to every side and not just start hurting people right and left. Personally I would look deeper into it all. In the end Miller had two meaningful words: pride and dignity. I think this writer was trying to express how important a person's name and dignity is deep down. How my name and dignity is displayed is very important to me.
Wow. Another hard question. Man, Mrs. S, I'm not going to be able to sleep after this.
If I were in Proctor's position (accused and found guilty of a crime I did not commit), it would be so hard for me to "confess." I don't even know if I would be able to do it. My name is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately (no, not just because of The Crucible (underline)), and I don't know if I would be able to throw that away. I know that I would not share names, especially if they are innocent. If I knew of someone who is guilty, I might give up their name, but I would feel awful for condeming them even though they deserve it. I feel that I can somewhat understand what John Proctor is feeling when he refuses to give names.
Elizabeth is a harder one. To see the one you love and the one that you're not sure loves you in return be condemned had to be hard. On top of that, being asked by people to get him to confess to a crime you know he did not commit puts you in an awkward position. "Do I love him enough to let him do what he needs to do for himself or should I ask him to save himself and live with that knowledge for the rest of my life?" That's tough. Um, I can see myself doing either, but I think I would probably lean toward the first option of letting him choose for himself. I could at least know in my mind and in my heart that he died in the way he wanted to-a condemned innocent man, and not at old age as a freed guilty man-and not feel bad that I made him unhappy.
And finally Danforth. He is one messed up dude. Like Proctor, he wants to protect his name. He truly believed that there was witchcraft in the village at the beginning, and that is no fault of his. I believe that I would probably have done something similar. Nothing that seems completely out of line, but something that is causing lots of people to have troubles and problems. However, when he realizes that he messed up when Abby skips town, he realizes that someone's name is going to be ruined. He wants to make it Proctor's name, because he wants it to be Proctor's pride that would be taken, not his own. I would feel so awful at that point, I'm not sure if I could push anything on anyone else. I'd probably steal the money under the floorboards and skip town (JK). I would probably leave, though, and try to make an apology. I would know that I was ruined, but I would have the knowledge that I was led blindly and found the right path after awhile and took it as soon as I could. But who knows. I never thought I'd read a book about a missionary that's 600 pages long and like it, so who knows... :-)
Miller is saying that at the end of the play, the character's pride and dignity is truly what is controlling their actions. Proctor keeps his pride and dignity, while Danforth tries to keep his by taking away someone else's. Abby's dignity is ruined as soon as she leaves town. Parris's pride and dignity are ruined after people realize the whole situation was a hoax. Elizabeth is kind of in her own special circle with her feelings and her love for her husband (she's a special lady), so the whole pride and dignity thing doesn't apply to her. Well, she's okay with her husband keeping his pride and dignity instead of his life. So she's kind of tied in with that.
Holy cow. I'm going to preview my comment to see how much I wrote because guess what? THE LITTLE BOX DOESN"T SHOW ME HOW MUCH!!!!
I realize that Miller is trying to invoke some sense of pride in people with this story. And John Proctor did maintain an enormous amount of dignity in dieing to protect his name, but I don't think he was thinking rationally when he made that decision. He didn't take the time to realize that things like this will pass. Everyone eventually does realize how stupid the entire situation actually was. I would have had the best interests of my family in mind, no matter what the situation. I know Proctor didn't want to incriminate others, but in a time of mass chaos, the only thing to do is protect yourself and your loved ones. I think being in the life of your child is better than having him/her remember you as some martyr for witchcraft. On that note, if I were Elizabeth, I would honestly let John do what he thought was best, exactly like she did. You can't talk a person out of something they are willing to die for, and I wouldn't want to.
If I were Danforth, I don't know how I would live with myself. ignorance and fear are no reasons to kill obviously innocent people. His egomaniacal attitude reached a point that was unforgivable. If I was Danforth I would have killed myself out of concern for society long before the trials occured anyways.
P.S.Relax everyone, it's just a story used to invoke heavy emotion, you shouldn't really act out on them you future serial killers. I'm gonna call it right now and say half these posts will be removed
In the Crucible there was many life changing things that happended. Each situation involved a specific character and his or her decision that impacted that action. One character was Proctor. He was put in a situation where he had to chose whether it was better to listen to everyone else or listen to his heart. In the end he chose his heart. I couldn't ever imagine or come close to what Proctor did, but I would have done as he had done. I would as he had given up everything to save my family, and friends, and lastly my name. Proctor had to chose..whether to leave what was right in God's eyes and join lies or follow God and leave everything. He decided to follow what his heart told him. He made the right decision. In Elizabeth's position. I honestly would have done the same thing. If my husband had to make a decision that meant him leaving me and the rest of the world behind I don't know if I could bear it. It would mean losing one of the people I'd loved most in the entire universe. Although I understand why she let him go. I think she saw that that was the only way. The only solution to solve everything for him. If I saw that I would let him go too. It would be unbearable; which I'm sure it was for her but it was what was right. Now Danforth hm....no way!!! He was so nieve and believed just what a select few people said. He should have looked beyond to what Hale, John and Gile were saying. In the end I think he truely believed he had made a grave mistake. In the story Miller seems to be pointing out an important fact; pride and dignity. I think he was trying to display that a persons name means everything. It is who you are and represents you. Without a name you are nothing,but lost. I think that was what defined Proctor in the end he knew that was everything and if he lost it he was nothing
Anyway! If I was in Proctor's position, I would probably lie about it. He had a wife and kids to care for, and yet he lost his life!!!! I would lie!!!!! I couldn't leave my family like that and not feel horrible!!!! THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!! After the girls were caught, then I would tell the truth. I wouldn't give people to suspect me...If I was in Elizabeth's shoes, I would plead for John to lie until the danger had passed. It would kill both of us on the inside, but at least we would be alive and able to care for a family. It would take many hours for both people to pray for forgivness because of that lie... As for Danforth...I really have no desire to answer this one but...I would feel soooooooo terrible abut what I had done that I would probable kill myself.....not exactly realistic for the time period, but now...I would feel the entire weight of the world and its sins on my back. Then I would make a public announcement about what had happened to the entire region, plus an apology...Doubting that that would work, I would then proceed to free the others who were condemned (weird sp.) then pray for forgivness. If I was later assinated, I wouldn't blame the people who did it...As you can tell, I have no great feelings toward Danforth at the moment...
if i was in proctor i think that i would've done the same as he when he did not confess. i think wat he did was the right thing to do. i dont think that i could live with the lies and blame for everything. i could not stand they way that my life would be like if i confessed to being a witch. every one would judge you, and look down on you. pppl would look at you different and stay away from you and your family. your name and your reputation would be shattered. i dont think i could live with myself. so i would have done wat john did.
if i was elizabeth i don't think i would have jus stood there and watched my husband roll away to be hung. i would have tried to run after him and tell him to sign the confession...even tho i no what john did was the right thing to do, i would be to selfish to let him go. i would want to him to stay.(ecspecially since john and eliz made up in the end)...wat elizabeth did was very brave and i dont think i could do the same.
if i was in danforths postion i think i would freakin shoot myself in the face, or have someone hang me..haha no jk thats a little extreme haha...but seriously wat he did was sooooo wrong!! he has no one to blame but himself! he didn't have to listen to those dumb girls and kill all those innocent ppl. i dont see how he didnt realize what was going on and that it was all made up. he was to stupid to listen to listen to those girls. so i think that they should've hung danforths for sentencing all those innocent ppl to death.
Miller seems to be showing us that pride and dignity are really the only thing that we have. its what makes us who we are. pride and dignity are very important to ppl.like in john proctors case it was everything to him. he was willing to sacrice everything, including his life, in order to keep his good name and his pride and dignity.if you lose your name, than you lose everything because that is what describes you and makes you who you are. that is miller is trying to say about pride and dignity. that it is very important and ppl are willing to sacrifice ne thing to keep it.
If I was Proctor, I would definitely be trying to survive, I wouldn't willingly kill myself. That probably says something about his character. If I was in Elizabeth's position I would most definitely try and get my husband to save himself. Can she really live out the rest of her life with the knowledge that she hardly tried to save him? I'm not so sure that she can. If I were Danforth, I would've tried to stop things before they got out of control, and if they somehow did get out of control I wouldn't try to justify myself by killing more people, I would stop what I was doing at once and leave before I ruined my reputation further. An apology wouldn't hurt either.
Miller I believe is trying to show throughout the play that the reason the witch-trials got out of control was because some of the people's pride got so oout of control that they couldn't stop what they were doing. Proctor dies with dignity, because even though he could have saved his life, he didn't anyway because he wanted to go out with some dignity.
Miller seems to be saying some of the same things that Sophocles seems to be portraying in Oedipus and Antigone about pride and dignity. However, the dignity part is a little different...Oedipus gouges his eyes out, and Proctor is still hanged blah, blah, blah... All of the characters seem to be potential tragic hero, but the one character that really fits the description is John Proctor. I don't think Elizabeth has all of the traits...I'm not sure if this is all correct, but it's an answer.
P.S. I REALLY REALLY...REALLY DON'T LIKE THOSE GIRLS!!!! THEY DESERVE TO DIE A VERY SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH!!!!! Except the Putnam girl...she at least apolgized. Poor girl...to have all of that hanging on her like a million lead weights.
In Proctor's postition I would probably lie to save my life as he did. I don't know bu ti guess i could see myself wanting my life more than my good name. In Elizabeth's I think she definately did the right thing. She gave him the freedom to do what he thought was right even though it would hurt her. I would hope that i have the courage enought to do the same. Danforth is a snivveling woosie. I HATE HIM mor than i hate parris. Instead of helping the people and addmitting that he was wrong, he had to be a "woman" (yes adam a woman) and hold up his reputation first. To danfroth I say put on yuo big boy undies and eal with the consequences you have coming to you. Miller seems to say that people as a whole care more for themselves than those around them and will doing anything to justify their actions even kill innocent people.
If I were in Proctors position I would have chosen to confess that I was a witch unlike him. In Puritan society religion is a lot more strict and they believe all lire’s go to hell. They figure they would rather die and not lie and go to Heaven. Today religion is a bit more relaxed and lying is not as bad as it used to be. This is why I would confess, because I would keep my life and I could ask the town to forgive me or move far away to another town and start a new life.
If I were in Elizabeth’s position I would let John go because I can see why he believes he should be hung and not give up his name. After the baby was born I would confess to being a witch for the reasons I already stated in the paragraph above. If the baby was taken from me I would move far away and start a new life. If I was able to keep the baby then I would try to raise it in Salem hopefully with help and as soon as it gets older I would move away if nobody had accepted me yet.
In Danforth’s position I would have chosen not to hang Proctor and the others after I had realized the whole thing was fake. Either way I would need to apologize to the town for signing the death warrants, so I might as well save a few extra people in the process. I wouldn’t punish the girls too much because it was Abby who mainly started the whole thing.
Miller is saying pride and dignity is everything in the kind of society Salem has. This is so because there religion is so strict and it is a small town so everyone know about everyone else making it more personal.
Although I can give an answer, I don't think it's truly accurate because I don't think you really know what you would do unless it actually happened. In John Proctor's situation, I would've most definitely chosen to live and lie. Let's face it, also it was extremely dramatic that John dies, that one death wouldn't really have stopped anything. I think the people would have figured out that witchcraft was a fraud so it is almost kind of pointless for a 'sacrifice'. And if John is so connected with God, he could've just said "I'm a witch" to save his life and God would have forgiven him. If I were Elizabeth Proctor during this era, I suppose I wouldn't have told John what to do merely because women speaking up at this time was somewhat unusual. However, if this were to happen today, I definitely would've told him he's an idiot for giving up his life. Not only is he abandoning Elizabeth, but also his two kids, and a community in need for someone who WILL speak up. As bad as this sounds, if I were Danforth is this situation, I probably would've started believing in the removal of witches. If talk of witchcraft was so mainstream back then, tensions would always be high, and its easier to assume and point the finger than it is to sit back and worry. However, towards the end, I would've realized that I had made a mistake. It's difficult to say if I would really go through with those last deaths because morally it is wrong, but for the sake of the town of Salem, it is right. I'm not really sure if that makes any sense but if you just come out and confess you were wrong, no one is going to trust you. People are going to be sad, tired, angry, and disloyal to the government, and that's the last thing you'd want. I think Miller's interpretation of pride and dignity is exactly what Adam said: Pride is only vanity. I believe that John Proctor showed only dignity, while Danforth showed only pride. But like I said in the last paragraph, I don't completely disagree with Danforth's reasoning.
If I had been in Proctor's position, I would have chosen to die as well. This is because a proud and honest death means more to me than a dishonest and sinful life. If I had been in Elizabeth's position, I would have tried to talk my husband out of dying, but I would have also respected his wishes. As his wife, I would have forgiven him for his sins against me and let him know that I loved him. Although it would have broken my heart to watch my husband die, I would have understood why he did and I would have loved him even more for those reasons. If i had been Danforth, though, I would have chosen to listen to other facts. I know that that was difficult at this time period, but there were people capable of being realistic, so I think Danforth could have tried. The judges could have tried to open their minds to other facts and logics and to let go of some of their pride to save the lives of some people. Let's face it, although this would have been wonderful in real life, no one would have liked the play if there wasn't someone to be angry at. I think Miller is trying to show that pride is sometimes dangerous things in a person's life. It is good to be proud, but when you allow it to cloud your vision and obstruct your moral system, pride is not good. Likewise, dignity can also be dangerous. It is good to want to keep your dignity, but if you allow it to get out of hand, it will. Pride and dignity mean so much to people because they can define someone. Through life, people are constantly tested. During these tests, they must decide if it is more important to uphold their pride and dignity or if it is best to let go.
John Proctor died in order to save his name. i don't think i would have done this. i think i would have lied so my life could be saved. everyone would hate, so i would move away. i mean, who would even want to stay in a town with a bad reputation after the witch hunts. i think that i would just want to get away and forget about it, even though that would be difficult. if my bad reputation still followed me, i would change my name. For Elizabeth's situation, i completely agree with Nikki. i wouldn't want proctor to be living with a bad reputation if he didn't want to. no matter what he did, i would have stood behind him on his decision, even if it meant i would never see him again. of course i would want him to live and help raise the children, but in the end, i would want whatever he thought was best. I would give him advice, but i wouldn't choose for him. In Danforth's situation, as soon as i realized how many innocent people i had killed, i would have felt awful. i don't think i would know how to live with myself. there would be no way i could take any other innocent lives away, so i would not continue with the remaining hangings. i think Miller is trying to tell us that there is a difference between pride and dignity. You have pride if others respect you. you have your dignity when you respect yourself. Danforth killed the innocent people accused of witch craft even after he knew it was all false so he could keep his pride. Proctor died because he refused to lie and save himself. he did what he thought was right, so he kept his dignity.
If I were in Proctor's position i would definitly make the same choice as he did. I believe he made the right choice because he's not changing who he is just for the benefits of others when he is doing the right thing. Also, it would be harder for me to live with myself knowing that i lied to save my neck. I honestly believe in standing up for what you believe in over saving your life. Also, I could never condemn other innocent people to death for my own sake. Proctor made the right choice despite having a wife and children. If Proctor didn't, his family would be disgraced for all of their lives, there kids lives, and there grandkids lives. They would always be looked down on for his choice and out casted by their friends that knew he bent under pressure. If i was Elizabeth i probably would run away but later I would be so sick of myself and so ashamed I would ahng myself... Well that's atleast what I want her to do. Anyways I wouldn't have gotten myself in that predicament in the first place... since I'm not a whor* in all....Haha... If I was Danforth I would probably try to actually look at things from all angels and possibilities instead of hanging a rope around everyone's neck that he sees. Danforth is a blood thirsty self-righteous no-it-all. If i had made all the choices ha made during the trials, after the truth was uncovered, I would pack up, leave town, change my name, and live as an ashamed hermit for the rest of my life up in some cave somewhere... and maybe hang myself to... no I a, not in anyway suicidal... but also I use my brain instead of my pride so that might explain things. Miller obviously is pointing out how important pride is to him and to the people of that time and that that is what he stands for. He is showing how important it is to do what you know is right and also the downfall that comes in loving power and having a swelling pride. Pride is only acceptable in some occasions. And crap i was thinking of Elizabeth as Abi... go Elizabeth for going with your husband,,, woulda done the same thing
mmk well if i was in proctors position im pretty sure i would lie before i let some judge kill me cause he was in the mood.....yea i would rather live oh and move somewhere else than be dead and people still think im a witch...better to be alive and a witch or just dead lol if i was in elizabeths situation i would be tempted to say fine you can have the cheating @#!$$&^ and let her live with him and i would take my kids and find some HOTT stud to marry!!! and if i did decide that i could forgive him for the moment and then decide later when he wants to keep his good name...it would probably be something like you have to keep your good name!!! your a good christian man and they do not lie be a hero!!! hehe is that mean? well i guess im the kind of person that trys to get back at others for doing something stupid.....k and i dont even think if i was the judge guy i wouldnt believe those little %$(*#%* in the first place :)
If I was in Proctor's position back in his time. I would want my life so I could live my life with my wife. It would be hard though to throw away my name which was everything back in this day. You would have to swallow all of your pride just so you could live your life. Now on the other hand if I was in Elizabeth's shoes I would want my husband to live. It would be hard to make him swallow all his pride just so he could live with me. I would not make him give up his name. I wouldn't even hint to it. That way it was his choose completely. Now if I was Danforth's I would have to let him live. I would not put the signed paper on the door of the church. I would let him keep his pride. Miller is showing how if you lose your pride and dignity you have nothing. P.S. Sorry for it being so choppy I got home from tennies and just wanted to go to bed.
If i was in proctors position then i would stand up for my wife but if i was then accused i would say i was a witch so i could still take care of my kids. Miller says that the people were to worried about their pride and dignity and that they went to far, enough to get themselves killed, just so their name would be respected.
If I was in John's position I would have done the same thing. I would have stood up for what was right. Just like John I would have protected my name so that my family would be proud to have the same name. I would, however, haev put up a better fight to protect my innocence. I would die for a cause. Sacrafice myself for the good of other people.
If I was in Elizabeth's position I would be more upset about the Abby "situation". I am a jealous person and sharing is not part of what I do. Anyhow... I wouldn't do wat she did. I would have died (baby and all) so that the trials could have ended sooner.
If I were in Danforth's position I would have let all the accused go because I would know that law has to do with fact not assumptions and accusations.
Even though I already typed this one, I think my computer ate it or something. So I'm doing it again. If I were in Proctor's position, I would like to say that I would do the same as him. However, it would take a lot of guts, courage, and pride to be able to somewhat sentence yourself to your own death. But if I really believed strongly in something, as John did, I think I would stand up for my rights. But as Keegan said, you never know what you would do unless you were actually presented with the situation. If I were Danforth, I would definitely not let the accusations and killings go on like he did. Once he knew it was all a hoax, he should have stopped it immediately, and admitted his mistakes, even if he would have lost his position. I think Miller is saying that pride and dignity, in some ways, are more important than many other things. One should not have excessive pride, but should stand up for what he/she believes in, no matter the consequence.
30 comments:
Proctor eventually just broke when the balance of order completely fell to the opposing side of Abby. I would probably have done the same... actually earlier. If I were to defend a case on someone with much argument, and suddenly the person you are defending turns on you, there would just be too much to bear. The choices were DIE or... LIE... I would have probably lied due to I DUN WANNA DYE but then again, half of the people would be drawn to believe that I is a guy doing killing magick....
Elizabeth was accused and knowing that rebelling will make matters worse, she just let herself be taken. I would have been like "Abby is a #(*%# and she needs to #(*%#ng suck &*#(& and die and burn for accusing me and ruining my #%(** **** Life" in my head... and then go be taken. The next time I saw mia accuser, I would then whip out my hidden fork and stab her in the eye and gouge them out with a spoon... Then sock her in the face... I would obviously die for that but I would just feel better when she is a pool of red pulp. Elizabeth did not force her husband to lie, she clearly gave it to him that it was his choice and she has no power to it. I am not that...calm.. I would plead to keep a loved one alive... (assuming I is not dead yet for smashing la accusers face in).
In Danforth's position, I would.. ... I have no Idea.... I'll finish this later.
If I was in Proctor's position I would definitly not do what he did haha. I would lie about it and then later (if they ever found out that those girls were crazy) I would tell the truth. If I had kids and a wife to look after like how John did, I wouldn't give people a reason to kill me. If I was Elizabeth I would feel really upset about the whole situation. I wouldn't want my husband to die just because he wants to tell the truth and keep his "dignity". Life is precious to waste away like that. Why would you want to end it just because you want to tell the truth. I think that Miller is saying that back then, pride and dignity was very important to people. Even today, if people were put in that kind of situation, they would choose the same route as the victums of the Salem witch trails.
so i'm guessing the first one is adam's..u spelled "dye" wrong, its d-I-e and i thought i was gonna be like one of the last ones..but apparantly ppl either forgot or didn't know there was this journal thing...or are just lazy procrastinators anyway...
first of all, i'm not any of htese people and i don't know exactly what i would do, this is only what i think would be the better thing to do, i'll probably not be able to the same decision tho if i was actually in the situation.. so proctor, i'd like to live..and i still don't see a point in the whole name thing, i mean it's a label kinda, and it doesn't really say who you are inside, might be cuz i'm used to ppl not be able to say my name correctly. but i'd also like to stand up against wrong and not give in, so idk what i'd do..elizabeth..i would support whatev proctor did and continue living strong no matter what his decision was..but that if probly won't happen bc marriage is dumb and the law is much better..danforth, i now think i relate to him the most. i would try to be just but that situation really isn't easy.. but of course the oppressed always gets more sympathy and win, tho i hate it when people do that (when i'm accused as the oppressor, some kid is the oppressed) i would still fall for it if i was the judge..then later (being danforth) after the truth is revealed, i'd turn myself in to authority (better ones) and be guilty but have cool friends and family who tell me its ok bc i didn't PURPOSELY kill them
miller seems to say pride and dignity is what a person should live for and die for if he/she can't have it..sure, it's easy to say everyone would like that, but in the status quo, ppl are cowards, like myself, and are only saying things bc they're not actually experiencing the situations....
another thing..i just remembered that i hate if ?'s ... so unrealistic..and untruthful (the answers) but i like how you let me complain about every side of the ?'s tho..thanks!
Proctor eventually just broke when the balance of order completely fell to the opposing side of Abby. I would probably have done the same... actually earlier. If I were to defend a case on someone with much argument, and suddenly the person you are defending turns on you, there would just be too much to bear. The choices were DIE or... LIE... I would have probably lied due to I DUN WANNA DYE but then again, half of the people would be drawn to believe that I is a guy doing killing magick....
Elizabeth was accused and knowing that rebelling will make matters worse, she just let herself be taken. I would have been like "Abby is a #(*%# and she needs to #(*%#ng suck &*#(& and die and burn for accusing me and ruining my #%(** **** Life" in my head... and then go be taken. The next time I saw mia accuser, I would then whip out my hidden fork and stab her in the eye and gouge them out with a spoon... Then sock her in the face... I would obviously die for that but I would just feel better when she is a pool of red pulp. Elizabeth did not force her husband to lie, she clearly gave it to him that it was his choice and she has no power to it. I am not that...calm.. I would plead to keep a loved one alive... (assuming I is not dead yet for smashing la accusers face in).
In Danforth's position, I would at first, still be the same old strict and devoted remover of witchcraft at the witch trials... Until things got out of hand, when people start dyeeing in large quantities, I would rethink of wtcrap I need to reconsider.. I would not let those last people die because of needing to keep my own reputation and fairness of "must hang them". I would have let him sign the confession paper, but not nail it to the door and still keep him aLiVE and to possibly not spoil his name and pride.
... Forgot to close my Bold text tag... crap.. now the whole thing is bold...
..
O well wahtevre..
--Y'all know how angry I am about the witch trials, so be patient with me as I rant violently and continuously.
--If I were in Proctor's situation, I would definitely be a major itch-bay to everyone responsible for the witch trials, and I would want to cause them as much pain as possible. I know that makes me sound like a terrible person, but I would no way In HE*& give those judges the satisfaction of seeing me beg for my life, and lie to everyone in the process. Unlike a certain spineless, weak-minded she-witch(uh-hem...Mary), I would NOT give in to the lies just to ease the conciences of the judges, because I personally hope they are tormented forever for what they did. Abigail and her home-girls, especially!!!!
--In Elizabeth's case, I would move away from Salem, and never think about it again. It would be incredibly hard after witnessing such horrors and losing a husband, but I would live for my husband's child and make sure it grew up in a better place.
--In Danforth's place, I don't see how I could possibly live with myself. I would probably commit suicide. I mean, look at how old he was(he was probably a bit senile [or a lot], what else could explain his unrational stubborness?), so it's not like he had much longer to go, anyway. Sure it's the coward's way out, but if I could be tried and sentenced to death, I'd take it, because that's the only way I can see someone making up for all the horrors they caused. (A life for a life, and all that.)
--In the CRUCIBLE, Miller really makes the reader think about how much a person would give up in order to keep his pride and dignity. To me, if a person loses all his pride and dignity, then he has nothing. Proctor knew this, and that's why he preferred to die. In my mind, after Danforth realized that Abigail was lying, he could have made things right by publicly appologizing and then sentencing Abby to die, like all the other innocents, but only after she was completely stripped of friends, pride, and dignity(which she totally deserved). HOWEVER, by continuing the trials, Danforth only proved to me that he holds himself too high on his pedestal, and doesn't give a rat's you-know-what about making things right, because even though he may lose his pride, people would still respect him for making a mistake...or twenty mistakes, depending on how many innocents he actually sentenced/caused to die. Now let me rephrase what I said before; as long as you have your dignity, you'll be okay, for pride is only vanity, but dignity is your own honor.
--PS. I HATE ABIGAIL WILLIAMS AND ALL THOSE GIRLS. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE THEM!!!!!
Wow. I feel so much better now. Avert your eyes to the previous text all ye who aren't fans of angry ranting.
If in Proctor's position, I feel that i would lie and say that i was a witch. I believe he did a more noble thing by sticking to the truth, but i dont think i could do that. i especially would want to lie if my wife was pregnant like elizabeth. Sure he wants to keep his pride, but he has a duty to raise that unborn child. God forgives and i think He would understand one lying in that sort of position.
If i was elizabeth, i believe that i would tell Proctor that it was his decision, but i would give him my input. i would tell him that God would forgive him for his decision either way. i would also tell him that i would want him around to help raise our unborn child, but i would not want him to be unhappy the rest of his life for thinking that he made the wrong decision. Ultimately, it would be his decision.
If in Danforth's position, i believe that i would see that i was wrong in believing the girls and let the accused go. I would feel terrible about killing the other innocent people so i would not continue to kill the innocent in order to save my name.
Miller is showing that some people will die to keep their pride and dignity. not all people are like that, but if one does not have pride or dignity, then what do they have to live for?
I'm going to have to completely agree with Kaylyn on all of this. If I were in John Proctor's position, I would lie and admit to being a witch even if it costed me my name. Who cares that you are being called a witch as long as you live? I mean seriously, it's not like everyone would walk around town avoiding him because he is a "witch", because supposedly.. the whole fricken town is full of them. So I'm pretty sure that everyone wouldn't have looked at him any differently. I'm also pretty sure that everyone in the town (including the dumb judge who couldn't just let him live..) knew that everyone who confessed was just making it up so they could live. John is also very dumb to basically kill himself when he has a wife and kids that he supposedly loved. WHATEVER!
Being in Elizabeth's position, I would tell John what to do. John would most likely do whatever Elizabeth says because in his eyes, she is "perfect". If I were Elizabeth, I would never say that I have made mistakes too and that I won't judge him for whatever choice he makes. I mean I would, but not until after the judge decides to stop hanging innocent people. Yes, I know it's not his fault, but I don't care. If I were Elizabeth, I wouldn't let John have the choice to keep his name when it means killing himself and leaving me with two kids plus a third on it's way..
Danforth's position.. hmm.. I'm pretty sure my opinion on him has been made clear but here it is again..
Danforth is stupid. If I were in his position, I would have stopped it all once I found out the truth. When I found out that stupid Abby tricked all the stupid people in the stupid town, I would have made sure that no more stupid people would have been killed for no stupid reason. (Okay, I got the word stupid out of my system.) I would have just let everyone free (since they are innocent anyway) without making them confess to a lie. I know that we discussed this and that the judge had to finish it off but it sounds pretty... STUPID (okay, it slipped). Think about it..
"I'm going to finish killing off these innocent people that have had nothing to do with the devil, just because I've killed plenty of other innocent people by accident. These people must die for my past mistakes."
Yepp... sounds great doesn't it?
Miller must be saying that pride is very important, because for all we know.. John surely thought so.
Stupid Witch Trials.
Alight, that is the last time I'll say stupid, until our next blog entry. :D:D
The last chapter was known to end in tragedy. Character's such as Proctor and Elizabeth had situations that were mortifying. At the end Proctor had a very difficult situation to make. If I was in his position that would be so hard. Like him I would do anything for my spouse and childeren. These individuals are his life. Deep down his strength in trying to do the right thing is extremely important to him. If I was in the situation he was in I would probably do somewhat of the same thing. I would want to prove to people and myself that what the court was doing was a lie! Another difficult situation/person put in a difficult situation in the plot was Elizabeth Proctor. This women has gone through so much in this tale "The Crucible." Such things such as being cheated on by her husband and being accused as a witch. Elizabeth is a very strong individual inside and out. This woman held her head high through it all. In the end she was pregnant. Being in a situation with a baby on the way is difficult enough, but then suddenly John is sentenced to die. In this situation I would probably be selfish and not let my spouse make that sacrifice. On the other hand though I would probably let him do what would be best for himself. This would be a hard sacrifice but I would know he did the right thing for everyone. About Danforth I wouldn't make the decisions he would have made. I would have listened to every side and not just start hurting people right and left. Personally I would look deeper into it all. In the end Miller had two meaningful words: pride and dignity. I think this writer was trying to express how important a person's name and dignity is deep down. How my name and dignity is displayed is very important to me.
I agree with Nikki's too! But I didn't see it until I posted mine.
Wow. Another hard question. Man, Mrs. S, I'm not going to be able to sleep after this.
If I were in Proctor's position (accused and found guilty of a crime I did not commit), it would be so hard for me to "confess." I don't even know if I would be able to do it. My name is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately (no, not just because of The Crucible (underline)), and I don't know if I would be able to throw that away. I know that I would not share names, especially if they are innocent. If I knew of someone who is guilty, I might give up their name, but I would feel awful for condeming them even though they deserve it. I feel that I can somewhat understand what John Proctor is feeling when he refuses to give names.
Elizabeth is a harder one. To see the one you love and the one that you're not sure loves you in return be condemned had to be hard. On top of that, being asked by people to get him to confess to a crime you know he did not commit puts you in an awkward position. "Do I love him enough to let him do what he needs to do for himself or should I ask him to save himself and live with that knowledge for the rest of my life?" That's tough. Um, I can see myself doing either, but I think I would probably lean toward the first option of letting him choose for himself. I could at least know in my mind and in my heart that he died in the way he wanted to-a condemned innocent man, and not at old age as a freed guilty man-and not feel bad that I made him unhappy.
And finally Danforth. He is one messed up dude. Like Proctor, he wants to protect his name. He truly believed that there was witchcraft in the village at the beginning, and that is no fault of his. I believe that I would probably have done something similar. Nothing that seems completely out of line, but something that is causing lots of people to have troubles and problems. However, when he realizes that he messed up when Abby skips town, he realizes that someone's name is going to be ruined. He wants to make it Proctor's name, because he wants it to be Proctor's pride that would be taken, not his own. I would feel so awful at that point, I'm not sure if I could push anything on anyone else. I'd probably steal the money under the floorboards and skip town (JK). I would probably leave, though, and try to make an apology. I would know that I was ruined, but I would have the knowledge that I was led blindly and found the right path after awhile and took it as soon as I could. But who knows. I never thought I'd read a book about a missionary that's 600 pages long and like it, so who knows... :-)
Miller is saying that at the end of the play, the character's pride and dignity is truly what is controlling their actions. Proctor keeps his pride and dignity, while Danforth tries to keep his by taking away someone else's. Abby's dignity is ruined as soon as she leaves town. Parris's pride and dignity are ruined after people realize the whole situation was a hoax. Elizabeth is kind of in her own special circle with her feelings and her love for her husband (she's a special lady), so the whole pride and dignity thing doesn't apply to her. Well, she's okay with her husband keeping his pride and dignity instead of his life. So she's kind of tied in with that.
Holy cow. I'm going to preview my comment to see how much I wrote because guess what? THE LITTLE BOX DOESN"T SHOW ME HOW MUCH!!!!
I realize that Miller is trying to invoke some sense of pride in people with this story. And John Proctor did maintain an enormous amount of dignity in dieing to protect his name, but I don't think he was thinking rationally when he made that decision. He didn't take the time to realize that things like this will pass. Everyone eventually does realize how stupid the entire situation actually was. I would have had the best interests of my family in mind, no matter what the situation. I know Proctor didn't want to incriminate others, but in a time of mass chaos, the only thing to do is protect yourself and your loved ones. I think being in the life of your child is better than having him/her remember you as some martyr for witchcraft. On that note, if I were Elizabeth, I would honestly let John do what he thought was best, exactly like she did. You can't talk a person out of something they are willing to die for, and I wouldn't want to.
If I were Danforth, I don't know how I would live with myself. ignorance and fear are no reasons to kill obviously innocent people. His egomaniacal attitude reached a point that was unforgivable. If I was Danforth I would have killed myself out of concern for society long before the trials occured anyways.
P.S.Relax everyone, it's just a story used to invoke heavy emotion, you shouldn't really act out on them you future serial killers. I'm gonna call it right now and say half these posts will be removed
In the Crucible there was many life changing things that happended. Each situation involved a specific character and his or her decision that impacted that action. One character was Proctor. He was put in a situation where he had to chose whether it was better to listen to everyone else or listen to his heart. In the end he chose his heart. I couldn't ever imagine or come close to what Proctor did, but I would have done as he had done. I would as he had given up everything to save my family, and friends, and lastly my name. Proctor had to chose..whether to leave what was right in God's eyes and join lies or follow God and leave everything. He decided to follow what his heart told him. He made the right decision. In Elizabeth's position. I honestly would have done the same thing. If my husband had to make a decision that meant him leaving me and the rest of the world behind I don't know if I could bear it. It would mean losing one of the people I'd loved most in the entire universe. Although I understand why she let him go. I think she saw that that was the only way. The only solution to solve everything for him. If I saw that I would let him go too. It would be unbearable; which I'm sure it was for her but it was what was right. Now Danforth hm....no way!!! He was so nieve and believed just what a select few people said. He should have looked beyond to what Hale, John and Gile were saying. In the end I think he truely believed he had made a grave mistake. In the story Miller seems to be pointing out an important fact; pride and dignity. I think he was trying to display that a persons name means everything. It is who you are and represents you. Without a name you are nothing,but lost. I think that was what defined Proctor in the end he knew that was everything and if he lost it he was nothing
hmmmm...Adam sure has quite the vocab...
Anyway! If I was in Proctor's position, I would probably lie about it. He had a wife and kids to care for, and yet he lost his life!!!! I would lie!!!!! I couldn't leave my family like that and not feel horrible!!!! THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT!!!!! After the girls were caught, then I would tell the truth. I wouldn't give people to suspect me...If I was in Elizabeth's shoes, I would plead for John to lie until the danger had passed. It would kill both of us on the inside, but at least we would be alive and able to care for a family. It would take many hours for both people to pray for forgivness because of that lie... As for Danforth...I really have no desire to answer this one but...I would feel soooooooo terrible abut what I had done that I would probable kill myself.....not exactly realistic for the time period, but now...I would feel the entire weight of the world and its sins on my back. Then I would make a public announcement about what had happened to the entire region, plus an apology...Doubting that that would work, I would then proceed to free the others who were condemned (weird sp.) then pray for forgivness. If I was later assinated, I wouldn't blame the people who did it...As you can tell, I have no great feelings toward Danforth at the moment...
if i was in proctor i think that i would've done the same as he when he did not confess. i think wat he did was the right thing to do. i dont think that i could live with the lies and blame for everything. i could not stand they way that my life would be like if i confessed to being a witch. every one would judge you, and look down on you. pppl would look at you different and stay away from you and your family. your name and your reputation would be shattered. i dont think i could live with myself. so i would have done wat john did.
if i was elizabeth i don't think i would have jus stood there and watched my husband roll away to be hung. i would have tried to run after him and tell him to sign the confession...even tho i no what john did was the right thing to do, i would be to selfish to let him go. i would want to him to stay.(ecspecially since john and eliz made up in the end)...wat elizabeth did was very brave and i dont think i could do the same.
if i was in danforths postion i think i would freakin shoot myself in the face, or have someone hang me..haha no jk thats a little extreme haha...but seriously wat he did was sooooo wrong!! he has no one to blame but himself! he didn't have to listen to those dumb girls and kill all those innocent ppl. i dont see how he didnt realize what was going on and that it was all made up. he was to stupid to listen to listen to those girls. so i think that they should've hung danforths for sentencing all those innocent ppl to death.
Miller seems to be showing us that pride and dignity are really the only thing that we have. its what makes us who we are. pride and dignity are very important to ppl.like in john proctors case it was everything to him. he was willing to sacrice everything, including his life, in order to keep his good name and his pride and dignity.if you lose your name, than you lose everything because that is what describes you and makes you who you are. that is miller is trying to say about pride and dignity. that it is very important and ppl are willing to sacrifice ne thing to keep it.
If I was Proctor, I would definitely be trying to survive, I wouldn't willingly kill myself. That probably says something about his character. If I was in Elizabeth's position I would most definitely try and get my husband to save himself. Can she really live out the rest of her life with the knowledge that she hardly tried to save him? I'm not so sure that she can. If I were Danforth, I would've tried to stop things before they got out of control, and if they somehow did get out of control I wouldn't try to justify myself by killing more people, I would stop what I was doing at once and leave before I ruined my reputation further. An apology wouldn't hurt either.
Miller I believe is trying to show throughout the play that the reason the witch-trials got out of control was because some of the people's pride got so oout of control that they couldn't stop what they were doing. Proctor dies with dignity, because even though he could have saved his life, he didn't anyway because he wanted to go out with some dignity.
Ok so I forgot the last part of the journal...
Miller seems to be saying some of the same things that Sophocles seems to be portraying in Oedipus and Antigone about pride and dignity. However, the dignity part is a little different...Oedipus gouges his eyes out, and Proctor is still hanged blah, blah, blah... All of the characters seem to be potential tragic hero, but the one character that really fits the description is John Proctor. I don't think Elizabeth has all of the traits...I'm not sure if this is all correct, but it's an answer.
P.S. I REALLY REALLY...REALLY DON'T LIKE THOSE GIRLS!!!! THEY DESERVE TO DIE A VERY SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH!!!!! Except the Putnam girl...she at least apolgized. Poor girl...to have all of that hanging on her like a million lead weights.
In Proctor's postition I would probably lie to save my life as he did. I don't know bu ti guess i could see myself wanting my life more than my good name. In Elizabeth's I think she definately did the right thing. She gave him the freedom to do what he thought was right even though it would hurt her. I would hope that i have the courage enought to do the same. Danforth is a snivveling woosie. I HATE HIM mor than i hate parris. Instead of helping the people and addmitting that he was wrong, he had to be a "woman" (yes adam a woman) and hold up his reputation first. To danfroth I say put on yuo big boy undies and eal with the consequences you have coming to you. Miller seems to say that people as a whole care more for themselves than those around them and will doing anything to justify their actions even kill innocent people.
If I were in Proctors position I would have chosen to confess that I was a witch unlike him. In Puritan society religion is a lot more strict and they believe all lire’s go to hell. They figure they would rather die and not lie and go to Heaven. Today religion is a bit more relaxed and lying is not as bad as it used to be. This is why I would confess, because I would keep my life and I could ask the town to forgive me or move far away to another town and start a new life.
If I were in Elizabeth’s position I would let John go because I can see why he believes he should be hung and not give up his name. After the baby was born I would confess to being a witch for the reasons I already stated in the paragraph above. If the baby was taken from me I would move far away and start a new life. If I was able to keep the baby then I would try to raise it in Salem hopefully with help and as soon as it gets older I would move away if nobody had accepted me yet.
In Danforth’s position I would have chosen not to hang Proctor and the others after I had realized the whole thing was fake. Either way I would need to apologize to the town for signing the death warrants, so I might as well save a few extra people in the process. I wouldn’t punish the girls too much because it was Abby who mainly started the whole thing.
Miller is saying pride and dignity is everything in the kind of society Salem has. This is so because there religion is so strict and it is a small town so everyone know about everyone else making it more personal.
Although I can give an answer, I don't think it's truly accurate because I don't think you really know what you would do unless it actually happened. In John Proctor's situation, I would've most definitely chosen to live and lie. Let's face it, also it was extremely dramatic that John dies, that one death wouldn't really have stopped anything. I think the people would have figured out that witchcraft was a fraud so it is almost kind of pointless for a 'sacrifice'. And if John is so connected with God, he could've just said "I'm a witch" to save his life and God would have forgiven him.
If I were Elizabeth Proctor during this era, I suppose I wouldn't have told John what to do merely because women speaking up at this time was somewhat unusual. However, if this were to happen today, I definitely would've told him he's an idiot for giving up his life. Not only is he abandoning Elizabeth, but also his two kids, and a community in need for someone who WILL speak up.
As bad as this sounds, if I were Danforth is this situation, I probably would've started believing in the removal of witches. If talk of witchcraft was so mainstream back then, tensions would always be high, and its easier to assume and point the finger than it is to sit back and worry. However, towards the end, I would've realized that I had made a mistake. It's difficult to say if I would really go through with those last deaths because morally it is wrong, but for the sake of the town of Salem, it is right. I'm not really sure if that makes any sense but if you just come out and confess you were wrong, no one is going to trust you. People are going to be sad, tired, angry, and disloyal to the government, and that's the last thing you'd want.
I think Miller's interpretation of pride and dignity is exactly what Adam said: Pride is only vanity. I believe that John Proctor showed only dignity, while Danforth showed only pride. But like I said in the last paragraph, I don't completely disagree with Danforth's reasoning.
If I had been in Proctor's position, I would have chosen to die as well. This is because a proud and honest death means more to me than a dishonest and sinful life. If I had been in Elizabeth's position, I would have tried to talk my husband out of dying, but I would have also respected his wishes. As his wife, I would have forgiven him for his sins against me and let him know that I loved him. Although it would have broken my heart to watch my husband die, I would have understood why he did and I would have loved him even more for those reasons.
If i had been Danforth, though, I would have chosen to listen to other facts. I know that that was difficult at this time period, but there were people capable of being realistic, so I think Danforth could have tried. The judges could have tried to open their minds to other facts and logics and to let go of some of their pride to save the lives of some people. Let's face it, although this would have been wonderful in real life, no one would have liked the play if there wasn't someone to be angry at. I think Miller is trying to show that pride is sometimes dangerous things in a person's life. It is good to be proud, but when you allow it to cloud your vision and obstruct your moral system, pride is not good. Likewise, dignity can also be dangerous. It is good to want to keep your dignity, but if you allow it to get out of hand, it will. Pride and dignity mean so much to people because they can define someone. Through life, people are constantly tested. During these tests, they must decide if it is more important to uphold their pride and dignity or if it is best to let go.
John Proctor died in order to save his name. i don't think i would have done this. i think i would have lied so my life could be saved. everyone would hate, so i would move away. i mean, who would even want to stay in a town with a bad reputation after the witch hunts. i think that i would just want to get away and forget about it, even though that would be difficult. if my bad reputation still followed me, i would change my name.
For Elizabeth's situation, i completely agree with Nikki. i wouldn't want proctor to be living with a bad reputation if he didn't want to. no matter what he did, i would have stood behind him on his decision, even if it meant i would never see him again. of course i would want him to live and help raise the children, but in the end, i would want whatever he thought was best. I would give him advice, but i wouldn't choose for him.
In Danforth's situation, as soon as i realized how many innocent people i had killed, i would have felt awful. i don't think i would know how to live with myself. there would be no way i could take any other innocent lives away, so i would not continue with the remaining hangings.
i think Miller is trying to tell us that there is a difference between pride and dignity. You have pride if others respect you. you have your dignity when you respect yourself. Danforth killed the innocent people accused of witch craft even after he knew it was all false so he could keep his pride. Proctor died because he refused to lie and save himself. he did what he thought was right, so he kept his dignity.
If I were in Proctor's position i would definitly make the same choice as he did. I believe he made the right choice because he's not changing who he is just for the benefits of others when he is doing the right thing. Also, it would be harder for me to live with myself knowing that i lied to save my neck. I honestly believe in standing up for what you believe in over saving your life. Also, I could never condemn other innocent people to death for my own sake. Proctor made the right choice despite having a wife and children. If Proctor didn't, his family would be disgraced for all of their lives, there kids lives, and there grandkids lives. They would always be looked down on for his choice and out casted by their friends that knew he bent under pressure. If i was Elizabeth i probably would run away but later I would be so sick of myself and so ashamed I would ahng myself... Well that's atleast what I want her to do. Anyways I wouldn't have gotten myself in that predicament in the first place... since I'm not a whor* in all....Haha... If I was Danforth I would probably try to actually look at things from all angels and possibilities instead of hanging a rope around everyone's neck that he sees. Danforth is a blood thirsty self-righteous no-it-all. If i had made all the choices ha made during the trials, after the truth was uncovered, I would pack up, leave town, change my name, and live as an ashamed hermit for the rest of my life up in some cave somewhere... and maybe hang myself to... no I a, not in anyway suicidal... but also I use my brain instead of my pride so that might explain things. Miller obviously is pointing out how important pride is to him and to the people of that time and that that is what he stands for. He is showing how important it is to do what you know is right and also the downfall that comes in loving power and having a swelling pride. Pride is only acceptable in some occasions. And crap i was thinking of Elizabeth as Abi... go Elizabeth for going with your husband,,, woulda done the same thing
mmk well if i was in proctors position im pretty sure i would lie before i let some judge kill me cause he was in the mood.....yea i would rather live oh and move somewhere else than be dead and people still think im a witch...better to be alive and a witch or just dead lol if i was in elizabeths situation i would be tempted to say fine you can have the cheating @#!$$&^ and let her live with him and i would take my kids and find some HOTT stud to marry!!! and if i did decide that i could forgive him for the moment and then decide later when he wants to keep his good name...it would probably be something like you have to keep your good name!!! your a good christian man and they do not lie be a hero!!! hehe is that mean? well i guess im the kind of person that trys to get back at others for doing something stupid.....k and i dont even think if i was the judge guy i wouldnt believe those little %$(*#%* in the first place :)
HA!!!! Hope beat the computor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She turned the firewall off and now her computor is at risk :D YAY!
If I was in Proctor's position back in his time. I would want my life so I could live my life with my wife. It would be hard though to throw away my name which was everything back in this day. You would have to swallow all of your pride just so you could live your life. Now on the other hand if I was in Elizabeth's shoes I would want my husband to live. It would be hard to make him swallow all his pride just so he could live with me. I would not make him give up his name. I wouldn't even hint to it. That way it was his choose completely. Now if I was Danforth's I would have to let him live. I would not put the signed paper on the door of the church. I would let him keep his pride. Miller is showing how if you lose your pride and dignity you have nothing.
P.S. Sorry for it being so choppy I got home from tennies and just wanted to go to bed.
If i was in proctors position then i would stand up for my wife but if i was then accused i would say i was a witch so i could still take care of my kids. Miller says that the people were to worried about their pride and dignity and that they went to far, enough to get themselves killed, just so their name would be respected.
If I was in John's position I would have done the same thing. I would have stood up for what was right. Just like John I would have protected my name so that my family would be proud to have the same name. I would, however, haev put up a better fight to protect my innocence. I would die for a cause. Sacrafice myself for the good of other people.
If I was in Elizabeth's position I would be more upset about the Abby "situation". I am a jealous person and sharing is not part of what I do. Anyhow... I wouldn't do wat she did. I would have died (baby and all) so that the trials could have ended sooner.
If I were in Danforth's position I would have let all the accused go because I would know that law has to do with fact not assumptions and accusations.
That is how I stand on all of that.
mhm...
:)
kk bye
love,
Sonja
Even though I already typed this one, I think my computer ate it or something. So I'm doing it again.
If I were in Proctor's position, I would like to say that I would do the same as him. However, it would take a lot of guts, courage, and pride to be able to somewhat sentence yourself to your own death. But if I really believed strongly in something, as John did, I think I would stand up for my rights. But as Keegan said, you never know what you would do unless you were actually presented with the situation. If I were Danforth, I would definitely not let the accusations and killings go on like he did. Once he knew it was all a hoax, he should have stopped it immediately, and admitted his mistakes, even if he would have lost his position. I think Miller is saying that pride and dignity, in some ways, are more important than many other things. One should not have excessive pride, but should stand up for what he/she believes in, no matter the consequence.
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